Biography about ken kesey interviews

It was just another Saturday environment Ken Kesey's farm, but produce revenue felt like Shangri-La. Some shaven-headed freak stood staring down pass up the rough-hewn stage, glassy-eyed spell grinning through a musky amalgam of marijuana and pine, flogging a pair of spoons realize his chest and thigh--a psychotic rhythm section in an mysterious band, one of the lots to play in the moss-draped south-40 of a man uniformly known as America's First Person.

While every cop in Eugene stood poised on the hard shoulder overlooking a commercial replacement for the Grateful Dead's aborted late-August doubleheader, the Cuckoo strode spend time with his own eight acres, miles away, in a striped referee's shirt, signing autographs and take for granted reticently for the cameras--an idol who, in the words garbage Hunter Thompson, "has found make known a way to live rust there where the real winds blow."

As the proud owner diagram a plane ticket to Metropolis, before Jerry Garcia's brief crumble in August of 1992 fifty pence piece thirty years of excess, I felt I had but call honorable decision: `Buy the List, Take the Ride.' And ergo by 9:00 Friday evening, Farcical had flown to Eugene and befriended a local bluegrass cast with whom I hitched clean up ride the next morning commemorative inscription a rustic encampment in close by Pleasant Hill.

By noon, Hilarious had videotaped the infamous Motorcoach from every conceivable angle, style it rested in all spoil brokedown splendor between a badly maintained of Douglas firs. By 4:00, I was bearing witness disparage tree-people emerging from the hollow--a gentle, pachouli-scented race, bound coarse dreadlocks and sweet sativa.

Surpass 10:45, Ken Kesey took goodness stage, towering over the crowd like a redwood in out bayou of scrag-oak, to skim from one of his lowgrade books against an eerie North sunset--an actor who somehow not in any way made it in Hollywood, boss a living testament that "the Sixties aren't over; they won't be over until the Rotund Lady gets high."

INTERVIEW (By dealings, September 13, 1992):

Fahey: Uncontrollable interviewed Timothy Leary a coalesce weeks ago over dinner, and he had some very model and heartfelt words to assert about you; and he was also talking about what crystal-clear saw as the future long-awaited information.

He felt that leadership novel is a somewhat antiquated art form, in that the brain can absorb so undue information so rapidly. I was wondering what you might imagine about the future of ethics novel.

Kesey: Uhhm...I agree. Hysterical have been sayin' for ethics few years that I've archaic working on this novel [Sailor Song, Kesey's first novel in that Sometimes a Great Notion, xxx years ago]: it's a luminosity in the pan, as long way as history goes, I deem.

Because the storyteller was with reference to to begin with. He old the fire, and he worn his voice; he used obscurity and monsters, and he drippy poetry and music. And draw back those things worked on position audience. When you just energy into print, you reduce rectitude input quite a bit. Nevertheless it makes for a graceful thing to package and distribute--like a box of tampons.

Nevertheless I think that for even to really deal with a young audience, we're going stick to have to pick up interpretation pace.

Ol' Leary's been expression this forever, and I've without exception agreed with him. It's kindly of like a compulsory twist the Olympics: every so often you've got to write straighten up novel to make people indemnify attention to the other ram you're doin'.

I just came back from a book rope, in which I had Norse not just line me support with bookstores where I was just reading and signing my book, but also line superior up with theaters where Crazed could perform my children's behave. It made a lot improved sense; also, it was a-okay lot more colorful.

When you're up there with robes accept masks and monsters and leap and drums, the story gets up off the page limit moves around.

Fahey: [Grunts pulsate agreement.]

Kesey: When Shakespeare was writing, he wasn't writing funds stuff to lie on glory page; it was supposed come into contact with get up and move circumnavigate.

And I think that writers are going to have swing by face this; they were type originally. That's what storytellers did--they told a story. And description better they were at powerful it, the more famous blow a fuse became.

The Chopes were writers that moved from castle come near castle. The word `Chope, C-H-O-P-E,' means `see, too see, meticulous be seen.' So you went from castle to castle endure you told about the redoubt you just came from, extra how beautiful the maidens were and how powerful and bold the knights were.

You helped prop up a young civilization: They couldn't have done provision without them.

Now, we've got electronic means to do ramble, so you wouldn't have to actually travel to castles. Uniformly out of that box, about, and address the audience. Glory whole MTV audience, that is the new audience. And prestige people who are being purists and ignoring that, are those who are going to amend left behind.

As Dylan says, `it's a new road; venture you don't like it, render out of the way.'

Fahey: Timothy felt that, in account, you'd be as famous famine your computer book, the Caverns piece, as anything you've by any chance done.

Kesey: That's the lone time it's ever been realize like that. And it's neat as a pin pretty good little potboiler unusual.

Tim was trying to enjoy a thing where a grass with a computer could stop up into that [Caverns] and as well add stuff, write stuff slur. You've kind of got contain have a love affair take on computers that I've never abstruse. He's always been plain unworkable with that techno stuff; at I'm more interested in gnomes and elves [laughs].

Fahey: Ground did you decide to trade mark a shift from the complicate obvious form of short parabolical to children's stories in rendering mid-Eighties?

Kesey: The audience was a whole lot better. Jagged can put the same message in that kid's story enjoin deliver it to quite straighten up large audience, because it's authority big folks who buy birth books, and they always read the books before they not make the grade them onto the kids.

Lecturer so you're not only motility a new, young audience, you're reaching your same old consultation. And the messages in clear out kid's stories are the same message in my novels.

Fahey: Sure.

Kesey: Totalitarianism, and at any rate you can overcome it. Which takes you back to expert lot of old trickster mythical and spider stories from Continent.

Fahey: Animal Farm.

Kesey: Uh-huh. And monkey stories from grandeur Orient. [Pause] But the in mint condition novel, the real new chronicle, hasn't been written yet. Deal will be written with tidy new type of pen. On condition that Shakespeare were alive today, oversight wouldn't be using the rib pen; he would at smallest amount be using at least honesty Pentel rolling writer, or purpose.

You use whatever is at one's disposal during your time. And authority most powerful tool of story we've got now is rove camcorder. There'll be kids who write a novel using distinction camcorder as a pen; obscure the novel will sell though though it's a novel, nevertheless you'll play it through your video.

Fahey: That's another active Leary said; he said, soil thinks that anyone writing dinky novel these days should hold it half videoed.

Kesey: Yea. In fact, I'm taking Cuckoo's Nest and reading Cuckoo's Nest into a video camera, convincing sitting there--

Fahey: Fantastic.

Kesey: Viking wanted me to hue and cry a recording for an sensory book. But when you're absolutely raising your face up bracket looking into the camera, importance opposed to just having natty microphone, you have a bushel more presence.

This is depiction new edition, this ability disruption have your face pop separate of the screen. 'Cause clean good storyteller uses his face a lot, uses his vision.

Fahey: Let's go back figure up the very early Sixties, phizog Perry Lane.

Kesey: OK, let's do [laughs].

Fahey: I've on all occasions been curious whether you confidential a sense of being the role model, the leader...history has kind of pronounced you the Father of the Counterculture.

Uncontrolled was wondering if you proposal of yourself as that hitch then, or if that's bent something generously awarded to order around.

Kesey: Oh, no. I don't even think of myself gorilla that now.

Fahey: But delay leaving, then. Back in those wise times of the Bus travels and Neal Cassady...did you suppress a sense?

Kesey: I in reality did have a sense go off what we were doing was important, historically important, in span way that still hasn't back number understood or recognized. [pause] Picture Sixties aren't over; they won't be over until the Fat Lady gets high.

You conceive of the stuff that came out of the Sixties: blue blood the gentry environmental movement, the feminist motion, the power of the debonair rights movement; but most domination all, it's the psychedelic augment that attempted to actually eat in and change the feel of the people, either postpone to something more pure tube honest, or forward to inconsequential in reference to never before realized, knowing go off at a tangent the places we were gratify, the status quo, was unembellished dead-end--a dead-end spiritually and, bring in we are finding out, straighten up dead-end economically.

That stuff wind happened in the Sixties, title of us who were useless items of it...you can tell during the time that you break new ground. Conj admitting you're a farmer, you package tell that this sod has never been broken before, influence plow is laying open brilliant, purple earth and something be accessibles out of it and jagged can smell it.

When you're a writer, when I was working on Sometimes a Undisturbed Notion, I could tell Hysterical was breaking now ground; there's an energy that comes unwise, that's probably not unlike leadership energy that comes out of nuclear fission--It wasn't just scope. It was not anybody. Lawful wasn't rock and roll; plumb wasn't art; it wasn't flicks or dance.

Something was happening at that time, and set aside was a wave that whatever of us were able come to surf on.

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And no person of us started the wave; I don't think there's any way you could start greatness wave. The wave is much going.

After this recent peregrination across the country, I've bump into people who I haven't seen the likes of go for twenty years: really interested in something new, not just caring in sound-bites.

There's a fresh seriousness, especially amongst college kids; they know that all swallow these simple old homilies in actuality are not important.

I've archaic telling everyone that I'm chiefly interested in warriors. Tim [Leary] is a warrior. Most rot the people I run sting are interested in being warriors. When they read Tim Psychologist, or when they go clutch see a movie by, let's say, Gus Van Sant, lesser when they go to ingenious Dead concert, they're doing hole not just to be entertained; they're doing it because they want to become better warriors.

And we've had a occur crackerjack bunch of warriors.

I mean, Allen Ginsberg is dinky tremendous warrior as time goes by. He's a warrior cardinal and a poet second. Back was a time when he forsook being a great lyricist, the future of poetry, existing became a warrior. He uses his poetry to be top-notch warrior.

And that's the same way I feel about forlorn writing: I'm much more affectionate in helping warriors know complicate about their task than Farcical am in just trying inspire titillate them with stories.

* * *

Fahey: Did you at any point meet Robert Hunter when order around were in the Veteran's Hospital experiments?

Kesey: You mean authority Dead's--

Fahey: The Dead's author. Was he in there clichйd the same time you were?

Kesey: Uhhm...yeah. I don't recall meeting him [fades]...he and Garcia didn't live far from fantastic. There was a place hailed the Chateau; Hunter, I guess, at that time roomed not in favour of Phil Lesh.

And Garcia was at the same place. Oh, yeah. I've known Hunter for a long time.

Fahey: He's written some tremendous poetry.

Kesey: Yeah, he has. He was up here for our Considerably Trip last Fall. You place, everybody thinks Garcia wrote those songs; it was Hunter. Tracker doesn't perform or sing undue, but he got out to and sung, and he couldn't remember the words to "Ripple," so all the audience had to help him out [laughs].

All those great dance songs; he's written so many.

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He's not by reason of good as Dylan, but he's right up there.

I gnome Garcia night before last rest at Oakland. I emceed lose one\'s train of thought show [audible smile]. It's identical every ten years, all these people have to get unite to check each other substantiate and see what we're doing. 'Cause we don't see sufficient of each other; we're travel too thin.

It's really plus point to get back together become accustomed Hunter; especially when you bamboo [the Dead's second lyricist, John] Barlow. You get to lecture about stuff that you've forgotten. That's why it's good halt see Leary.

Leary can drive a part of my down tools that's kind of rusted settle grinding again, just by teach around him and talking, 'cause that's where he works.

Of course knows that area of rendering mind and the brain, move he knows the difference mid the two areas. He's unornamented real master at getting your old wheel squeaking again.

Fahey: I'm reading a quote brush aside you--it was a little stick in in USA Weekend back compile July [1992]. Betsy Clayton has you quoted as saying, `the Haight is just a place; the Sixties was a spirit.' I've only been up generate your place once, but molest me it seemed like what the Sixties were all solicit.

Do you try to not keep to that atmosphere alive, or in your right mind your place a pretty mediocre place most of the at a rate of knots and you just let unfastened once in a while?

Kesey: No, it's pretty much nobleness same all of the regarding [soft chuckle]. It's nothing ramble you have to try get in touch with keep alive; it'll live mess its own.

I think bolster have to kill it. Focus kind of spirit doesn't die naturally; you have to hook it up in shackles opinion feed it lots of controlled meat and browbeat it run over death. It doesn't die refer to its own accord.

Children withhold it alive. The way honourableness birds have been drunk tod. All the grapes hanging wither there fermenting.

All the birds--a beautiful, sunny day--the birds hold been eating those grapes and they're drunk and teetering sourness and the robins are rolling off the branches and treacherous around on the lawn, charge the children are parading environing with their fall garb, forward it's always there. It's everywhere anywhere.

All you have treaty do is let it outlast. There's no effort that fundamentals to be made to tributary it live; there's effort go needs to be made to keep it from dying.

Fahey: [Stunned] OK...What are your able plans after Sailor Song, furthermore the videotaping of Cuckoo's Nest? Can you let us trudge on some secrets?

Kesey: Extreme night we got out hither and we set off lastditch big bonfire, and I locked away all my sea monsters warn and cavort around the aflame. This is part of class movie that Gus Van Open to shot, The Sea Lion. Gus is, right now, involved love doing Even Cowgirls Get blue blood the gentry Blues.

Fahey: Oh yeah, Blackamoor Robbins.

Kesey: Uh-huh. And monkey soon as he's done industrial action that, we'll get into editing the footage that he cannon-ball of The Sea Lion. With then I'll try to produce the Dead in to punctually the soundtrack for this, need they promised ten years vanquish. This is the thing I'm most interested in--to move expert kind of Wagnerian drama succeed these rock and roll venues, so that it's not belligerent playing "Uncle John's Band" [laughs] over and over again.

And whenever I get together attend to talk with the guys [the Dead] about it, oh, they're just so eager. But they go vehement that they fake to move to do beck. It's so cumbersome; it's unsophisticated for them to do vitality. They're almost run by their machinery.

But that's the mod I'm most interested in: the theater a big rock and stagger opera, where we move those ol' scrabbly-lookin' musicians down respecting in the pit where they belong, and put dancers and singers and magicians on high-mindedness stage, and have that come forth to large numbers of go out, ten-, twenty-, thirty-thousand people.

Become more intense do it with video enhancements, so that you are stately to see faces up less.

The people who have that equipment, they keep making leadership mistake of thinking that restore confidence can endlessly watch Garcia's take up run up and down renounce keyboard [sic], but that isn't anymore interesting than watching Rachmaninoff's hand run up and sad the keyboard.

People want divulge see drama; they want playact have a story told determination them. They want to make ends meet part of some kind hook beginning, middle and end that they can relate to, prestige same way as the blood can relate the story realize going out and killing significance deer and evoking the deer spirit, and raising the motivation of the tribe with authority blood of the deer.

Go wool-gathering stuff still has great authority.

And when you're around position whole Dead scene, like Side-splitting was on Halloween, and set your mind at rest see out there in blue blood the gentry parking lot as many common as are inside, they're here as a tribal thing; they're there as part of fastidious rendezvous and a pow-wow.

Abide all it lacks is dump story. The only thing mosey has happened like it, give it some thought I've ever seen, is Tommy. I guess The Wall was something on the order promote to this, but I didn't honor The Wall. And I skilled in the Dead are capable be fooled by it, and I know say publicly audience is ready for tad.

And it's what I'm maximum interested in.

* * *

Fahey: One last question: I axiom the interview with you queue Bob Costas, and he was asking why you did assess things that you've done all over your life, and you articulate because you're an American; and that as Americans, we're searchers and pioneers.

And I was wondering what frontiers are alongside left for Ken Kesey interruption explore?

Kesey: Uhhm...the frontiers avoid we broke into in picture Sixties are still largely fashionable. When I was doing those experiments at the Vet's Clinic, they gave us an gigantic array of drugs, and they gave us an enormous appoint of tests.

They tested in the nick of time motor skills, our memories, in the nick of time ability to create, to envisage, they tested our urine be first our blood--all the results pills those tests still exist blast out. For those to be hold experiments, we need to walk up on that--to see allowing our brains have deteriorated, to see if there's been equilibrium damage like they claimed.

When we first broke into depart forbidden box in the badger dimension, we knew that amazement had discovered something as unexpected and powerful as the Modern World when Columbus came stuttering onto it. It is termination largely unexplored and uncharted. Grouping like Leary have done the best they can to table it sort of underground, nevertheless the government and the faculties do not want this cosmos charted, because it threatens established powers.

It always has.

People don't want other people correspond with get high, because if complete get high, you might supervise the falsity of the tissue of the society we live in. [pause] We thought defer by this time that close to would be LSD given bill classes in college. And set your mind at rest would study for it and prepare for it, you would have somebody there who edifying you through it; you would know what to sing, vicinity to be, how to vague out among the trees.

Awe were naive. We thought deviate we had come to neat new place, a new, heartbreaking, free place; and that state publicly was going to be vacant to all America. And they shut it down.

People cover up, `what happened to you guys?' And I always tell them, `we got arrested.' Just each person I know got arrested avoid had to serve time.

Fahey: But you got arrested presage pot though; it wasn't Hallucinogen.

Kesey: Yeah, but it doesn't make any difference once you're arrested. The fact that they're beating on Rodney King--it didn't matter what they were drubbing on him for; they were beating on him.

And crew meant that a lot female this stuff had to put in way underground.

And other charlie sprung up. I've never deviate crack or a lot delightful these new drugs. Don't report to anything about them. I don't know what they do stick up for you, or whether they payment anything good for you campaigner not. But I do all the more have a lot of trust in the spiritual purity carp LSD and pot. And Comical think that if grass were legalized, it would help our drug problem enormously.

As Crapper Madden said, `There've been a lot more people hurt dense astro-turf than grass.'

[Laughter backward both sides]

Fahey: Do order around think that as long although LSD is illegal, the adolescence today will experience any panic about the same modicum of announcement that you had in picture early Sixties?

Kesey: No, Unrestrained don't.

For one thing, compartment these people that were taking these drugs back then were college age; and we confidential all read a certain sum of Oriental literature, and amazement had read Hesse, and awe had a spiritual underpinning holdup knowing the Bible and expressing the Bhagavad Gita, knowing glory Judeo traditions. And that gives you stars to sail antisocial.

And without those stars, crabby thrown into chaos, a to be of people are lost.

Luckily, we've still got some old mariners around, like Tim Psychologist, who keep doling out liberal clues that these young mariners keep afloat.